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שלום Anonymous ::: 2024, 02:12
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Getting a tight funk-rock drum sound
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   ראשי » SoundBoard - סאונד מקצועי
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S.Supporter
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Getting a tight funk-rock drum sound
הודעה פורסם: ראשון 16 ינו',05 13:25   
Hi,

A band I'm friends with is planning to record a funk-rock song.
I was hoping to get some inspiration for what to look (out) for.
The sound they're after is similar to, say, the sound on "So Much to Say" of the Dave Matthews Band (first song on the "Crash" album. PS not a favorite of mine, but the sound is very good)
Here are my questions in general, assuming the drummer is very good (humor me #biggrin). If possible try and make references to the song I've quoted, if you know it.
The general direction is a tight, punchy drum sound.

First of all, some recording questions.
1. What sort of snare is used? That is: of what material, tuning and so forth? What size (diameter)? Similarly if you have any advice pertaining to the kit.
2. How would you mike the drum kit?
3. What sort of room to look for? Small and dead (to add reverb later on electronically?)? We're looking to hire a studio for a day.

Now some mixing questions.
1. How would you approach mixing of such drums in general?
2. How much weight would you give close mics vs. room mics?
3. OH - would you use a high pass filter? Where?
4. How do you get the hihats to sound focused, assuming of course the drummer played his part well? EQ->Expander?

Of course any general advice would also be greatly appreciated. Sorry 'bout the question's length but it seems they always get this big when you want to get specific #biggrin .

Thanks.
Assaf.
ReuvenM
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הודעה פורסם: ראשון 16 ינו',05 14:08   
אגב, קישור לחלק מהקטע המדובר או דגימה שלו מלינק אחר, תעזור להעריך במה מדובר עבור הגולשים שאין להם את הדיסק או אלה שירצו להשיב. זה, אגב, חוקי (למטרות הוראה/הסבר).
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S.Supporter
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הודעה פורסם: ראשון 16 ינו',05 14:26   
Here is a link:

www.weizmann.ac.il/chemphys/assaft/audiotemp.mp3

It's about 20 secs of the song - enough for all purposes I think.
I've just put it on the server, it will take a couple of hours for the server to update itself for external surfers, so please be patient. Thanks.
ReuvenM
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הודעה פורסם: ראשון 16 ינו',05 16:21   
לפי מה שהספקתי לשמוע מדובר בעימוד צמוד מאוד, כולל דינמי בתוך הקיק, ושימוש בגייטים על ערוצי התופים.
חדר לא רטוב, אך גם לא מת מדי.
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S.Supporter
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הודעה פורסם: ראשון 16 ינו',05 17:56   
Thanks for the thought.
Could you perhaps comment on the type of snare used?
(diameter? material? tuning?)
That would be helpful. Thanks.
armadill
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הודעה פורסם: ראשון 16 ינו',05 18:19   
בד"כ בסגנון משתמשים בסנר פיקולו. (14x3.5)
מתוח היטב (אפשר גם למתוח סנר סטנדרטי חזק)
עדיף להשתמש בדאמפר או o-ring למניעת אוברטונים
לגבי סוג החומר , מתכת או עץ , קשה יותר להסביר את ההבדלים , צריך לשמוע.
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שי
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יש סנר בן זונה שאני ממליץ עלו עלו לסגנון הזה.
הודעה פורסם: ראשון 16 ינו',05 20:00   
פרל מהסידרה החתומה של צ'אד סמית מ red hot chili peppers
Chad Smith Model
Few drummers today are both as outrageous and as dedicated to the art of drumming as Chad Smith. His signature sound is consistently one of the best, overall rock drum sounds today. Chad's Signature Series Snare Drum reflects his outrageousness, his dedication to perfection, and offers an awesome rock snare sound. This drum is one of the most sensitive snare drums we offer. Its sound is very bright and articulate with great body; a very smooth frequency response and a wide tuning range. Our Chad Smith Signature Snare Drum looks as good as it sounds offering an exclusive 14"x5" black nickel plated steel shell, our CL-55 "Bridge Style" minimum contact lugs, 2.3mm SuperHoop II's, our "Gladstone Style" Vertical Pull Throw-Off, and precision-fit Stainless Steel tension rods and solid brass receives for super precise tuning.[U]
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This one goes to 11!!!
שי
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וככה הם משיגים תסאונד של
הודעה פורסם: ראשון 16 ינו',05 20:23   
Dave Matthews Band
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This one goes to 11!!!
Zooot
S.Supporter
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הודעה פורסם: ראשון 16 ינו',05 20:57   
That's 1 tight MF ...

Top american players r known 2 have custom instruments made 4 them, cuz wear and tear is not the issue, nor the money. So their instruments r usually NOT on the market.

Nevertheless...

The idea is the get a clear attack from the batter heads, and a controlled, resonant tone from the bottoms.

The shell definitely sounds metal, probably brass, and MASSIVE. Such a clear attack can hardly b produced from a wooden snr. And if they're after THAT sound anyway, then y bother ?

Small, true - but not a piccolo. 5" x 14, or slightly less. I haven't seen many such shells around in IL, maybe cuz they cost a lot. I recorded Tal Bergman 1ce with such a shell - plaster came of the wall with every hit.

Kick should b moderate in size - 22" or even 20 - I like those in the studio - very controlled punchy sound. So throw away the drummer's 26" if he's been having Bonzo-related wet dreams l8ly.

It's actually the way the player plays, and not the size. So the girls WERE right all along.

Skins should b clear on the batter side, resonant on the bottom. Go with Evans, they always deliver.
G2 clears + favorite resonants on the toms, HD and hazy on the snare. Snr skins should b tight 2 oblivion, top (especially) and bottom.

The skin choice have 2 do with the kit's natural resonance. If the kit ends up being 2 ringy - duller heads need 2 b chosen.

Snares should b tight 2, Puresound if U're rich, Blasters (good also) if U're not.

Kick - EQ3 or powerstroke 3 will keep U safe.


Recording:

Sound quite traditional 2 my ears.

No special room tricks, or dynamics.

Kick - the ol' AT, 421, RE20, AKG - whatever U fancy. If U mic the front head as well (large capsule condenser) - build a blanket tunnel.

Snr - same - 57, beta98s, etc. 4 a pronounced attack, a small capsule bright condenser can b added, taped 2 the 57, capsules aligned.

Toms - same - 421s, 98's whatever. Top and bottom may prove 2 b wise. Lis10 1st - if U need more attcak use again small condensers - U'll lose color though.

OH - coincident or near coincident pair 4 maximum focus. Small capsule (451's, 460s. km84s, km 184s) 4 reality, 414's 4 punch, 87s 4 color.

Hat - km 84, sm81 etc.

Room mics - what can I say? - the sky is the limit.

Room should b live, not a tunnel or a church pls.

Drums should b TUNED, playing should b TIGHT, controlled and BALANCED. That's the main source 4 the sound.

Have fun,

Peace,

Zooot.
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הודעה פורסם: שני 17 ינו',05 11:37   
Thanks for the very helpful advice everyone.
Some of it is too expensive to implement - such as, basically, replacing the entire drum kit, but we'll definitely strive to fix what we can within the budget constraints.
But onwards to processing, if I haven't worn you out yet.
how does one approach the mixing of such drums?
Does punch = lots of compression? Or is the punch achieved solely by tight drumming?
What sort of frequencies should I look out for?
Assuming there is good room reverb, should any additional artificial reverberation be added? (I assume very little of any, but please correct me if I'm wrong)
What sort of balance between direct and room sound am I striving for?
In short - any advice would once again be helpful. Thank you.
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